John Swenkler, American Conservative, Nov. 3, 2008
Whoever wins on Nov. 4, few Americans will harbor any illusions about their national unity. No matter which pairing one chooses—red and blue, Right and Left, coastal elites and flyover salt-of-the-earthers—there is no getting around our status as a country divided, a people set apart from one another as much by regional culture as by religion or political ideology.
A perfect time, in other words, to talk about secession—which is what will happen when the Middlebury Institute’s Third North American Secessionist Conference convenes in Manchester, New Hampshire a week and a half after the election. Thomas Naylor, whose Second Vermont Republic is one of the country’s most active secessionist organizations, is candid about the motive for the scheduling: “The date was set,” he tells me, “on the assumption that Hillary Clinton would be elected—and of course that’s not going to happen.” Nevertheless, the post-election timeframe is “looking more and more important every day” as popular outrage against the Wall Street bailout and anxiety over impending recession continue to build.
The Manchester conference brings together secessionists of all types. Writing in Orion, Bill Kauffman described the crowd from 2006 as “ponytails and suits, turtlenecks and sneakers, an Alaskan gold miner and one delegate from the neo-Confederate League of the South who wore a grey greatcoat, as if sitting for a daguerreotype just before the battle.” Despite—or perhaps because of—their ideological differences, they all share a common cause: to regionalize, to decentralize, to debunk the myth of a nation indivisible and replace it with a story that gives difference its due.
That story is by no means a new one. The idea of political separatism is, as Middlebury Institute founder Kirkpatrick Sale puts it, “as American as America.” From the 13 colonies declaring their independence from the British Crown in 1776, to the rash of state-splittings that took place during the early years of the Republic, to Norman Mailer’s secessionist 1969 campaign for mayor of New York City, the aura of divisibility has long been a part of the American tradition.
Throughout the years, the causes of such division have been as varied as the makeup of the American tapestry itself. Consider the movement that sprang up on the border of California and Oregon in 1941, when a group of disgruntled miners and loggers stormed the courthouse in Curry County, Oregon, brought several counties from Northern California on board to form a provisional government, and established the mining town of Yreka—pronounced “why-REE-kuh”—as the unlikely capital of the even more unlikely State of Jefferson. (The state’s name, which recalled the independent streak of the most rebellious of the American founders, was settled on only after such proposals as “Orofino” and “Mittelwestcoastia” were mercifully rejected.) The rebel flag bore a pair of X’s to indicate that the region had been doublecrossed by the governments in Sacramento and Eugene, and storekeepers put out change buckets for shoppers who wanted to redirect their sales-tax pennies from the state treasuries. Local men armed with hunting rifles set up roadblocks along the Klamath River Highway, distributing copies of a Proclamation of Independence that explained that they were in “patriotic rebellion against the States of California and Oregon” and planned to “secede each Thursday until further notice.”
The State of Jefferson turned out to be short-lived—the sudden death of its first governor was followed quickly by the Japanese bombing of Pearl Harbor, which sent the country into a fit of patriotic fervor that left little room for rebellion. But the spirit of ‘41 lives on in men like Leo Bergeron, a 70-year-old former rancher and 17-year resident of California’s Siskiyou County. He wears a loosely-hung bolo tie with his golf shirt and shows no signs of losing the energy that once made him president of the state Grange and led him to run for county supervisor earlier this year. He’s working to revive the State of Jefferson. “There’s becoming a state, becoming a territory, and becoming our own country,” he tells me. “The first two are the hardest because you need all sorts of approval from the legislators, but with the third option you can just tell ‘em all to go to hell. It’s really all about independence—we know this place, and we know how to govern ourselves. We don’t need some a—holes from Washington or Sacramento telling us what to do.”
{snip}
Original article
(Posted on October 31, 2008)
Comments
You can call it ‘divided’. I consider it like the honesty and enthusiasm of rooting for one’s football team.
Posted by at 6:30 PM on October 31
This is an idea more and more people are talking about in the open, which is a good thing. I don’t see this as a “radical” idea but a common sense one whose time has come.
Posted by RHG at 7:01 PM on October 31
Hmmm…notice anything interesting about this article? Not once is the word “race” mentioned anywhere in the entire piece. How likely is it that a secession based on race realism would take place when a sympathetic article like this can’t even bring itself to mention the word race? I’m sure that if the author mentioned race as a valid rationale for secession, his editors and most of his readers would have reacted toward him as if he had just advocated killing babies in their nurseries.
Another question is how secession would take place? By red and blue states? Those are scattered all across the country. The nation isn’t clearly divided by north and south as it was in the past.
The only way I can see secession as becoming feasible or even necessary is if whites indeed become outnumbered by Hispanics and become politically disenfranchised. That is indeed possible but it isn’t inevitable, despite what Hispanic activists assert. Despite the current presidential campaign, I do see a growing awakening about a Hispanic takeover by the rank and file of whites in this country.
Posted by Tim in Indiana at 8:06 PM on October 31
Me thinks that there will be such a shakeup in washington very soon and it isn’t gonna be pretty. People are fed up with voter fraud, graft in high offices, cheaters liars, thieves ….ect. All of this comes from politicians out for power, they could care less about us hard working white people. Before 2009, there will be some big trouble, I can see it coming, so get ready!!
Posted by justme at 9:04 PM on October 31
Read
The Northwest Migration Handbook for ideas on how to get started. It’s best to download and print it before reading; as a couple of stories here have pointed out, there is a serious movement under way to censor the Internet.
Posted by Wild Eyed Charlie at 9:11 PM on October 31
The idea of secession is regarded by some here as foolish, but it seems to me that any solution to our current situation will enter into existence by it as necessarily as one passes through a doorway when entering a building.
Additionally, when reading articles here anymore, the notion that appealing for change through the official means will effect anything is by my mind inescapably judged to be hopeless. The only hope I find, the only avenues which seem even remotely possible, and which I thus think about, seem to be ones of secession; my overwhelming feeling is that, fine, if you won’t do whatever valuable service we depend upon you for sufficiently, we’ll not just sit around waiting for whatever doom your stupidity invites to overcome us, apparently having decided that we are completely dependent on you — we’ll do it our own f^cking selves. We’ll rebuild whatever mechanism you constituted without the critical flaw. Schools little but institutions of indoctrination? Fine, we’ll start our own school. Police incapable of protecting our neighborhoods? Fine, we’ll create our own defense force. And so it goes, eventually arriving at the realization that we need our own country, our own boat, manned and helmed by our own principals, so that when the one we’re on now crashes into the rock, or sails into the hurricane, we will not be on it to perish for foolishness that is not our own.
Posted by Sunder at 9:17 PM on October 31
Undoubtedly this country is ripe for secession. I lost interest in the article because the implication was that our problems are one of regionalism and religion, not race and ethnicity. To be sure regional differences do exist, but that’s the least of our worries.
I live in the Midwest but have more in common with a white person in Georgia than a black or mestizo in Illinois or Indiana. There are racial fault lines all over this country, but nary a word in the American “Conservative”. Their unwillingness to address racial issues is the main reason I canceled my subscription to the magazine.
Posted by Super Dave at 9:39 PM on October 31
The State of Jefferson, Cascadia, Northwest Republic, or any other name you wish to give it, has been around conceptually for a long time. The problem is that Oregon and Washington are blue states. As I look at the map of red and blue states, it looks as though this is where the seperations are going to be. East coast blue states will be country one, West coast blue states will be country two, and middle and Southern red states will be country three. The Book of Revelation does say that Mystery Babylon will be divided in three.
Posted by pinchegabacho at 9:55 PM on October 31
Each State should from committees to run representatives to a Secound Continental Congress whoes purpose would be to form two seperate and soverien nations. This should be something that can be done like other nations have done. The USSR split into some 8 different republics without blood shed. The Federalist System has failed and is dangerous to our people. The Federalist System will destroy or kill anyone who attempts to reform it. Besides, we have every right to break away and form a WHITE HOMELAND in North America.
Posted by the Soviet Republic of New Jersey at 10:00 PM on October 31
Lets do it. We have every right to break away from a broken and dangerous Federal System.
Posted by the Soveit Republic of New Jersey at 10:06 PM on October 31
Amerinds were given large reservations and many exclusive rights by our European ancestors. Now, we are the new natives being displaced and having a slower but just as sure genocide being purpetrated on us. It makes sense to have areas where we have exclusive control and special “rights” (like to remain unmolested by outsiders on our “reservations). But will we have to fight for such areas, that is the question. And will we be able to govern ourselves or will we require greater assistance from them? The answer is that we will need industry and trade just as we do now – and a banking system – and food. Some things to think about
Posted by Whiteplight at 10:10 PM on October 31
The Confederacy would have won its independence if they’d only been more patient. By firing on Fort Sumter, they gave the Tyrant Lincoln the excuse he needed to attack the South. There are places today that are effectively outside the control of the national government, namely the ghettos, barios, and sanctuary cities. All of them, of course, receive money taken from productive Whites and would collapse without that stolen wealth. Could not those parts of America that still earn their keep quietly secede as well? Not by declarations, but by non-cooperation with authority we do not recognize, just as the Blacks, Mexicans, and Reds do?
Many of us would like the invaders to attack us directly, with Banzai charges that we could mow down, but that’s not going to happen tonight. Or if we had a patriotic government, we could all enlist in an Army of Liberation. That’s not going to happen either, at least for another four years. But we can think and act subversively, try to connect with others who might share our views, and take whatever opportunity comes along to derail our Enemies ambitions. It seems that people in this country are gradually segregating themselves by belief, and we should encourage that. To live in a community where we could casually discuss the failings of Blacks along with the weather and the Super Bowl would strengthen us tremendously. As things now stand, liberals control public discourse. Note how there was no mention of immigration during the recent “debates”. Our silence is our Enemies greatest strength. We feel isolated, as if our views were not held by a large majority of Whites. But armies are made up of battalions, which are made up of companies, which are made up of squads. We can form the squads of our friends and neighbors. We can share our views, exclude the unwanted, and help one another. There will be no White Nation without White communities, and building those communities is within our reach. When we can trust our neighbor, we can begin to think about recovering our country.
Posted by Schoolteacher at 10:14 PM on October 31
Schoolteacher:
My compliments…a great primer for the Path Forward.
Hopefully, we will only have to live with the incompetent Republi-Com, not the blatant Red-Com
Posted by Ivar at 11:14 PM on October 31
Even if a state secedes, it will not make a difference. Why not? Because…
- A well-to-do White person in the newly seceded state would decide that he needs very cheap labor to work for him. He would import in his labor from some of the third-world states and give them special rights to entice them to work longer and harder.
- An altruistic White person in the newly seceded state would say, “It’s not right that those poor Blacks are suffering so much in Mississippi. We have plenty of good conditions here. Why don’t we bring some of them here and share our good conditions with them? What would that hurt? After all, it’s the Christian thing to do.”
- A loyal reader right here in Amren would say, “This really isn’t about race, and I do not mind the presence of Blacks…”
There you have it. The cycle would start all over again.
The most elite Whites want the changes that are rapidly occurring, because it is more profitable for them. They want a browner society of less intelligent people who are easily manipulated and gullible. Whites will be virtually non-existent in the not-too-distant future in America. It will be a nation of dumbed-down mongrels, which is exactly what the most elite clique of Whites want.
Posted by at 12:46 AM on November 1
Get rid if the illegal aliens, the H1Bs, and build the wall on the southern border. Do this and we there will be no need for succession. It is the large nuber of foreigners that is destroying our nation.
Whose side will you be one? I live in a sanctuary city. I do not want to live in a santuary city. I want the feds to arrest our fat mayor and put him in the pokey for a long time. I consider the santuary city policy on the same level as firing on fort sumter. I support the feds in this issue.
Posted by flyingtiger at 1:03 AM on November 1
The Union is in trouble for sure! But few people understand the term “union” anymore. The public schools do not teach it and most of the citizens look at states as if they were just counties! Each and every state is sovereign and independant. If the state governments would stand their ground more, then the union government would act more of a union government than a dictatorship. But of course it comes full circle. The state governments do not stand their ground because they don’t know of the union concept, because they come from public schools, and the cycle repeats its self.
Posted by Trisket at 1:38 AM on November 1
we dont have to wait for whites to be disenfranchised, its already here. if obama gets to be president, he will immediately legalize 20 million mexicans, adding 20 million new democratic voters. no more republican party, ball game over, america has been successfully taken over. i dont think the divisions are all race based, look at all the white people with obama signs in their yards, and all of our liberal politicians, and our east coast liberals, and universities. the liberals and us conservatives dont even agree on what the truth is, so there is no other alternative but to partition our nation, but when that happens we are going to be the bad guys.
Posted by danjack at 1:59 AM on November 1
I think the secessionist movements will entail a committee of correspondence.
“I lost interest in the article because the implication was that our problems are one of regionalism and religion, not race and ethnicity. To be sure regional differences do exist, but that’s the least of our worries.”
-SuperDave
I agree, SuperDave. The violence in the innercities, caused by Black, Hispanic, and Southeast Asian gangs will evidence the racial nature of the upcoming conflict. These gangs could care less about States’ right (or centralized government), or regional nationalism. To them, it will be about the White man, and for some, the Black or Hispanic man. Northeast Asians will also be targeted, by the Black and Hispanic gangs (i.e. attack on Korean storekeepers in LA Rodney King riot).
The future Civil War will officially start in the Southwest, and it will be very racist! Just type “Aztlan” into your search engine, and you will know what I mean.
My suggestion is to form defense militias to defend our communities against Black and Hispanic gangs. Protection will be vital. Also keep in mind that gun control is about disarming us, in our defense agaainst Black and Hispanic invaders. It’s truly nothing else. The far-leftists support it, so they can disarm “Whitey.” The Black and Hispanic gangs will get their guns anyways, whether guns and ammunition are legal or not.
I know this is going to be a touchy subject, and I am sorry to digress a little, but this will be very important for our people, with whatever happens; I think we should prepare for projects to clean up depleted uranium pollution, in case it’s still in our military’s arsenal. If we can’t ban the use of nuclear depleted uranium-based weapons, we should resort to the next best solution. Thereby, we should prevent uranium contanimation. Thereafter, we should find medical methods to treat uranium poisoning, and maybe even tactics to help us evolve, to the point where uranium will be contained and maybe even disposed of, through our kidneys.
Depleted Uranium will be a risk for our government. If it uses it, it has a key weapon, in instant victory, or the victory version of instant gratification. But, by using it, it also gives the precedent and ability for Depleted Uranium to be used against it. So, by banning it, the government doesn’t really lose anything. If it uses Depleted Uranium, it will actually quicken the spread of anti-government propaganda, rapidly.
The disarming of Whites only, the potential use of Depleted Uranium, and forced multi-racial policies could be the turning points to turning mainstream thought against the government.
Note to secessionists: Please don’t promote or actually use Depleted Uranium; it won’t benefit our people, merely to be poisoned.
Posted by EA Steve at 2:28 AM on November 1
The true POWER of the enemy is their control of the media. Read any book on Psychological Warfare techniques and you will read the description of what the Neo Marxist media is doing to America.
Beyond that, HOW did they get control of the media? Through control of the Universities, which are vast indoctrination camps for Marxism/Liberalism.
Liberals are NOT Americans. They have nothing in common with traditional American attitudes, beliefs or principles.
They are a cultural mutation which is leading to the utter destruction of the nation. Liberalism IS national suicide.
No nation can survive the disease of Liberalism.
Americans MUST realize the MEDIA is LYING to them, that they and their children HAVE been brainwashed.
50 million Americans still get their political information from the Marxist Media; CBS, NBC, ABC, etc.
Americans must develop their own media channels. Once the brainwashing is broken, Americans can begin to fight back.
Posted by Paul at 3:01 AM on November 1
As someone writing this from Europe it seems that this election, just like those that have been held over here in the last decade, will divide the elctorate in a way that breaks the ties of nationhood.
How can a person who holds christian values, believes in the traditional family, peaceful homogenic communities of European decent, patriotism and the rule of law live alongside people who denigrate your people and nation, its history and values and, like your Pastor Wright, Ayers and Farakhan hold you, and all you stand for, in contempt.
America is big enough to separate.
The Republican state would be happy, safe and prosperous.
The Democratic state would however become a third world hell hole in one generation with no-one to police or defend it.
Posted by Geoff M at 4:30 AM on November 1
No expert on this am I, but I do not see this happening for many reasons and the first and most important, unless I am mistaken, is that any new “nation” carved out of the U.S. would declare itself free of its “share” of the national debt. Would be great to start a new country without all the baggage, but the National government cannot let this happen. Even Lincoln did not prosecute the Civil War based on the debt, but a modern president would be forced to do so to get the peasants back on the reservation so they can pay past and present debts and transfer payments to the “unfortunate”.
Posted by at 8:51 AM on November 1
Any talk of a breakup must include a seperate republic for the upper peninsula of Michigan…
Posted by Northmen at 10:01 AM on November 1
To Posted by 8:51 AM. Lincoln did raise an Army and invade the South for just that reason. Lincoln, ” If we let the South go, what would become of our revenue?”. The Northern States were bankrupt, as was the federal government before the war began. Lincoln…” I have the Confederate Army, which I loath, to my front and to my rear the bankers, which I fear”.
As I have posted before, Secession is our only remedy for survival. We must do all we can to throw off the yokes we carry now. If your in debt, try your best to get out. Instead of wasting valuable land on perfect lawns, cultivate and plant crops to support your family. Seek out and buy natural and local products such as milk, eggs and fruit. This is something which I still have trouble doing, get to know your neighbors. We must slow down our fast paced lives. We must regain our agrarian and self sufficient ways. Secession comes in many ways. One small way to secede is to avoid companies and businesses that use their profits to subvert your way of life ie…Verizon, Mobil, Exxon, BP are just a few that give millions to the naacp. For those who have children, try to home school. These are but a few measures. Seek out Secessionist movements. League of the South, Alaska Independence Party, Vermont’s Secessionist Party. We have the blueprints for Independence. We now need the people to implement the plan. DeoVindice.
Posted by GreyGhost at 11:19 AM on November 1
A the present time, there is a very large ocean between America and China and seveal other non-white nations. If the Secessionist have their way, China’s will effectively extend its borders up the new White homeland somewhere in America. As I have written many times here:Secessionist are engaging in infantile magical thinking.
White Nationalist must set an example of uncompromising resistance to the post-1965 non-white invasion of OUR America. Secessionist are telling Native Born White Americans to surrender.
Posted by Jupiter at 12:30 PM on November 1
Long before the federal government become so intrusive in our lives, states rights protected the people of each state. The federal government was meant only to be the glue of cohesion that held the individuals states together as a union. And to raise an army in the event of war. The feds are way out of control now. They push their will onto the people of the individual states and practice a form of communism by taking from some states according to their abilities, and giving to others according to their needs. The feds themselves are controlled by a small group of individuals. If it takes a “civil war” to free the states of their slavemasters in washington d.c., then let it happen, and sooner the better. The national debt that has been ran up by the feds through uncontrolled and reckless spending is not a debt of the people. Get the money from Iraq and Afghanistan. Send a bill to all the 140 different places around the globe that we protect. I cannot find anyplace in the constitution of the united states where it states that the federal government can run up a debt in my name.
Posted by at 1:39 PM on November 1
Whoever wins on Nov. 4, few Americans will harbor any illusions about their national unity.
That is a very misleading statement.
First, the “national unity” myth is to large extent an illusion that can mostly be attributed to whites.
Relatively small minority of blacks and Hispanics subscribe to it. If Obama wins, they are NOT going to preach “national unity” all of the sudden. White Obama supporters will maintain their illusion, so we are not likely to see any radical change here. The other whites are likely to get disillusioned.
If McCain wins, though, Sarah Palin may become a strong unifying factor, at least among those who are unifiable. After all, she IS authentically American.
Posted by A Reader at 2:19 PM on November 1
No expert on this am I, but I do not see this happening for many reasons and the first and most important, unless I am mistaken, is that any new “nation” carved out of the U.S. would declare itself free of its “share” of the national debt. Would be great to start a new country without all the baggage, but the National government cannot let this happen. Even Lincoln did not prosecute the Civil War based on the debt, but a modern president would be forced to do so to get the peasants back on the reservation so they can pay past and present debts and transfer payments to the “unfortunate”.
Posted by at 8:51 AM on November 1
Just to be informative, the fact is that Lincoln paid for the war on the wealth of Union controlled California and Nevada gold and silver fields. Virginia City, Nevada was the main contributor because it was the most productive at the time and it was huge. There were a few attempts at Confederate take over here and there, but all failed.
Posted by Whiteplight at 3:22 PM on November 1
“The Confederacy would have won its independence if they’d only been more patient. By firing on Fort Sumter, they gave the Tyrant Lincoln the excuse he needed to attack the South. There are places today that are effectively outside the control of the national government, namely the ghettos, barios, and sanctuary cities. All of them, of course, receive money taken from productive Whites and would collapse without that stolen wealth. Could not those parts of America that still earn their keep quietly secede as well? Not by declarations, but by non-cooperation with authority we do not recognize, just as the Blacks, Mexicans, and Reds do?
Many of us would like the invaders to attack us directly, with Banzai charges that we could mow down, but that’s not going to happen tonight. Or if we had a patriotic government, we could all enlist in an Army of Liberation. That’s not going to happen either, at least for another four years. But we can think and act subversively, try to connect with others who might share our views, and take whatever opportunity comes along to derail our Enemies ambitions. It seems that people in this country are gradually segregating themselves by belief, and we should encourage that. To live in a community where we could casually discuss the failings of Blacks along with the weather and the Super Bowl would strengthen us tremendously. As things now stand, liberals control public discourse. Note how there was no mention of immigration during the recent “debates”. Our silence is our Enemies greatest strength. We feel isolated, as if our views were not held by a large majority of Whites. But armies are made up of battalions, which are made up of companies, which are made up of squads. We can form the squads of our friends and neighbors. We can share our views, exclude the unwanted, and help one another. There will be no White Nation without White communities, and building those communities is within our reach. When we can trust our neighbor, we can begin to think about recovering our country.”
Posted by Schoolteacher at 10:14 PM on October 31
> I hate to bring this up to one handled as Schoolteacher, but there are not records that illustrate a desire on Lincoln’s part to attack the South. And although it was the Union troops that moved to Manassas Junction to a waiting Army of Northern Virginia, they lost in a rout and the next two years saw Union defeat after Union defeat. It was only the over confidence and audacity of General Lee (a distant cousin of mine) that led the South to go too far into Union territory and loose big at Gettysburg. If Jeb Stuart had not been detained by repeated cavalry engagements, he would have been able to attack the Union forces from behind and guarantee a Confederate Victory. A good book on the subject is “Attack and Die.” It is chiefly concerned with the idea that Confederate strategy relied on attacking ferociously, which always cost more men then they had to loose. The book even compares this with the Roman Army engagements with Celts, making a comparison between the temperments and even the cultures of the two periods.
I think it is eerily reminescent of the last time to think that everyone who would want to seperate from a non-White state would share the exact same preferrences. Must everyone pass a religious test, then I am out. Will my fellow Whites turn and execute me?
I am bored with professional sports, and the Superbowl is full of Black atheletes anyway. I don’t think that Schoolteacher and a lot of posters are really thinking about a the reality of secession. This is not Mexico and they have a couple of long term shooting wars going on with seperatists in the south anyway. You won’t be able to seccede and then go down to Burger King for a Whopper and sit and watch the next game. I am afraid that most are fantacizing just like the last time and will pay for it – again.
Anyway, if there is a secession, I hope it is handled better than last time.
Posted by Whiteplight at 3:42 PM on November 1
Whaddaya want? The Balkans? Now THAT’s a mighty fine political arrangement!
A red/blue divide. Oh yeah, just what we need: Two coastal entities with fine ports, educated people, enlightened policies, and techno savvy… With a belligerant, violence-prone, fundamentalist theocracy in the middle, vociferously jealous of the coastal areas’ affluence, brainpower, and all-around superiority.
After much talk about pointy-headed intellectual wimpiness, the theocracy would inevitably invade… and we’d end up one nation again, even more screwed up than before!
Posted by generalquagmyer at 5:11 PM on November 1
“A the present time, there is a very large ocean between America and China and seveal other non-white nations. If the Secessionist have their way, China’s will effectively extend its borders up the new White homeland somewhere in America. As I have written many times here:Secessionist are engaging in infantile magical thinking.
White Nationalist must set an example of uncompromising resistance to the post-1965 non-white invasion of OUR America. Secessionist are telling Native Born White Americans to surrender.”
Posted by Jupiter at 12:30 PM on November 1
Would you support a cantonal system akin to the one in
Switzerland, but whereby a White jurisdiction could promote its own interests/keep non-whites from migrating thereto?
Do you think this would be a worthy alternative to secession and/or the status quo?
Posted by EA Steve at 5:28 PM on November 1
I do not believe that political secession is workable in any long term sense, even if the Leviathan allowed it to happen. Our enemies would only use their territory to prepare another attack on us. I am in favor of individual and community secession, a withdrawal of allegiance and cooperation with our oppressors. I think we should seek to find like-minded people and form our own communities, even if that only means the guy three houses down and the people on the next block with the Bob Barr for President sign in the front yard. Preferably, we would not be so isolated in Obamacist neighborhoods that we could find so few comrades, but we do what we can. If we cannot speak freely without losing our jobs, if we can only be truthful on the internet, we are like the Japanese troops isolated on many bypassed Pacific islands during WW2: helpless, and waiting for the inevitable. The internet is great, but it’s no substitute for personal friends with beliefs and attitudes compatible with ours. It doesn’t matter if you discuss the Super Bowl or play chess, real community comes from real friendship and a real sense of obligation toward your fellows.
We also need to look at moving to more congenial places if we no longer feel welcome in our hometowns. This too, is a form of secession. Why live in a place where your state and local taxes support everything you loathe? Why should you contribute your labor to the a society of people who detest you? Why be an outcast in your own town? I hated the idea of leaving my city, but it’s better than living amid Third World squalor and White insanity.
Some would call this a retreat, an abandonment of White territory to alien invaders and their White sponsors, but we have been losing consistently for years and years, on every front. We need to regroup, to invigorate those places we still hold. Many of us are behind enemy lines, fuming much but accomplishing little. Could we not do more good among our own people? Would the Reds behind Lutheran Social Services have been able to convince the people of Iowa to welcome Somalis if a few White refugees from Philadelphia had spoken up, warning the naive Whites of troubles to come?
I believe that we are on the verge of enormous economic and social disruption, not fixable by the usual methods of sly Federal bookkeeping. Obama can not save the liberals. The GOP will not save us. To survive, some parts of the country will need to remain American, with functioning economies and societies. We need to be part of that large remnant, so that we can recover those lands now occupied when they collapse.
Posted by Schoolteacher at 8:35 PM on November 1
Regarding Lincoln’s desire to attack the South: Most of the War was fought on Southern territory. Lincoln was constantly badgering his generals to attack. He would complain that some general had the “slows”, almost relieved General George Thomas, a skillful and successful commander, for insufficient aggressiveness, and once asked General McClellan if he might borrow the Army, since the General didn’t seem to be using it much. And he said of U.S. Grant: “I can’t spare this man. He fights.”
It’s true that the Southern armies were too eager to attack, losing too many men even when they drove the Yankees from the field, but again, they were fighting on Southern land against an invading army. Without Lincoln, all those Celtic Southerners would have been plowing and making babies, not shooting at Yankees.
Posted by Schoolteacher at 8:51 PM on November 1
General Quagmyer, ye are of little faith. Indeed, the east and left coasts may have the “fine ports, educated people (and)techno savvy,” as you claim. But when the feces hits the cooling device, which it inevitably will, the only things that will important are bread and bullets. And here in the midwest, we got an ample supply of both, and the means to make more. Regardless of the contempt you seem to have for the areas not on the coasts, we will do a lot better without the blue states than they will do without us. Furthermore, it was the “enlightened policies” of east coast elites that got us into this mess in the first place. Let the blue state liberals establish a Marxist utopia. They can do it without picking the pockets of the unwilling, limiting our libeties and imposing a hostile, foreign presence in our neighborhoods……………
Posted by Ice Bandit at 9:17 PM on November 1
For those posters who think secession is impossible or a bad idea, let me just say this: what other REALISTIC option is there? Taking back “our” country? How? Through elections? Please spare me. There are too many of them and too few of us. And too many of us are too cowardly to defentd ourselves or too brainwashed to even think about it. The hour is late.
The great experiment known as the United States ended in the 60s, and we have been living on borrowed time since. The mixed offspring will be elected this Tuesday, the economy will begin a slide into a Socialistic nightmare, and we better be prepared to take back a chunk of this continent when the ball of wax starts to come apart.
Posted by Marcus at 10:47 PM on November 1
Just what we need: Two coastal entities with fine ports, educated people, enlightened policies, and techno savvy… With a belligerant, violence-prone, fundamentalist theocracy in the middle, vociferously jealous of the coastal areas’ affluence, brainpower, and all-around superiority.
Posted by generalquagmyer at 5:11 PM
Gen Quag, you have said it very well. You are the only one here who has really laid it on the line and told it bluntly and plainly just like it is. A number of secessionist posters here have argued enthusiatically (and very naively) that they will have all the skills, all the productivity, all the wealth, all the intelligence, and the blue states will revert into festering ghettos. Not so! That’s too cut-and dried. The blues will still have white people. The blue states will have their problems, and plenty, but the red states will have even worse because intelligent people will be fleeing them.
The blue states, I’m afriad, will have nearly all (or most of) the scientists, the educated people, the cultured and creative people who will laugh with comtempt at the red states, while the latter ban evolution and regress into teaching creationism and the Rapture, and forbid questioning the Bible, or other such nonsense. What intelligent people would want to live there in a backward place like that? Contrary to their assumptions, the red states will become more like Africa or Albania and their people will begin migrating into the blue states to find jobs and opportunities, even if it’s in the presence of blacks and Mexicans, rather than have to endure the primitive conditions at home. I don’t see a bunch of theocratic bible freaks and hillbillies running an advanced civilization, any better than Mexicans or Haitians could. They neever have and I don’t think they ever will.. As someone else said above they are living in a fantasy world of magical thinking . And they’re going to get themselves hurt — again.
Posted by at 1:02 AM on November 2
I read about alot of division within our own ranks.We need to write a list of what we can all agree to .Keep it simple and organize and build for the future.There are basic things I believe we can all agree on.We have conferences and we need to move forward.The time is now to put aside our petty and nonproductive disagreements.We have a nation to build!We have organizations in place and they all have unique roles to play.If we really want to secure a homeland for the future of our children then the different states can be headed by the different oganizations.You pick where to live based on your personal belief.But all the states support each others right to survive.Because survival is what we all can agree with!RISE UP WHITE NATION!
Posted by THE MAN at 7:03 AM on November 2
EA Steve
No. Invasions should/must be repelled. The Swiss contonal-an idea promoted by anti-white leftist Kirkpatrick Sales-changes nothing. Native Born White Americans would still loose trillions of dollars of educational,industrial,technological,scientific and military infrastructure to China,India,Pakistan, Iran-over one million living in California at the present time-and Mexico. All of these nations will have effectively extended their borders deep into America. Native Born White Americans will be surrounded by these nations who will inherit the most lethal military infrastrucuture ever known to man.
The non-white population in these areas will explode. The ecological catastrophe will makes its way to the new White America”. It is infantile thinking to believe that it wouldn’t. It will also feel very crowded in the reduce territory occupied by Native Born White America. There will be massive sprawl and massive ecological destruction. Life will be be very unpleasant . Everyone will be living on top of each other. All the amenties will be lost.
I
Posted by Jupiter at 7:18 AM on November 2
“For those posters who think secession is impossible or a bad idea, let me just say this: what other REALISTIC option is there? Taking back “our” country? How? Through elections? Please spare me. There are too many of them and too few of us. And too many of us are too cowardly to defentd ourselves or too brainwashed to even think about it. The hour is late…
Posted by Marcus at 10:47 PM on November 1”
And I would add that if you don’t believe it’s possible, just stay out of the way and let US do the heavy lifting. If you’re not willing to work towards our common goal, you can always stay in PC multiculti hell and continue to whine about it.
Posted by Wild Eyed Charlie at 9:30 AM on November 2
It is long-past time to take matters into our own hands.
In general we must form social and economically collaborating microcommunities in rural and select suburban locations (Google “Microcommunity: A Definition”), develop alternative energy and production resources to promote economic independence, and seek political legitimacy in rural locations through local office.
I encourage AmRen readers who are interested in secession to Google “Homeschooling & Adult Education” and “White Communities & Micro-economies.”
Posted by A New Nation at 9:40 AM on November 2
It’s been mentioned here by a number of posters that Indian, Pakistan, China, and Iran will somehow be in control of parts of the former United States due to the presence of many of their countrymen here. Do these posters seriously think that dysfunctional third-world dumps like India and already unstable countries like Pakistan have the means to militarily interfere here ? First of all, they have problems of their own, such as Pakistan being involved in a de-facto war with Afghanistan and India with Kashmir. Second, there are far too many armed Americans, not to mention the presence of nuclear weapons in North America. Third, the only country that could conceivably have the money and transportation means to ship over the great amount of troops necessary is China. I think some posters here are exaggerating the threat from these quarters.
Posted by white student at 10:14 AM on November 2
Secession must be a fact before it can be declared.
Secession cannot be accomplished by force of arms.
Secession will occur when “they” are just as keen to be rid of “us” as we are to be gone.
Secession will happen and like most things, it will not happen soon enough but too soon for everyone to be prepared.
Posted by Memphomaniac at 11:57 AM on November 2
If our purpose is White Nationalism, then we have to start building a White nation somewhere. To think that all the intelligence in this country is on the coasts is incorrect. General you sound like the blacks I work with who refer to the Midwest as “one big trailer park”, and the South as “ignorant rednecks”. How many of the intelligent people on the coasts originated in the Midwest? You have a valid point about the port, strategically we’d need a port. I have lost all hope in fixing this country within the system. The reality is Microsoft is going to keep hiring Indians, they’re never going to build a fence on the border, and there is going to be another amnesty. Thursday they caught more Mexican military on our side of the border. Why do you think Mexico is probing our Border? Russia is holding joint military excersizes with Venezuela. Chavez is giving free oil to poor blacks. Why do you think he’s doing that? Obviously he’s trying to turn them even more against us. Schoolteacher, our enemies are already within our gates. They used immigration as their Trojan horse. We have to prepare ourselves. I’m fearful of January 20th, even more so than Tuesday. I intend to be out of Los Angeles by January 20th. If everyone on here feels seperating is wrong, what are your solutions? Vote McCain? This country, I feel, is about to take a hard turn left. Most of the brainwashed sheeple blame Bush for the economy, and are going to not only put Obama in the White house, but load congress with Democrats. All these first time voters are going to vote Democrat across the board. Soon Amren might not even be here. Paul, you are correct about the media. Everday the first thing I do is check my email on Yahoo. The articles on Yahoo are so slanted left, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry. This is where millions of Americans get their information. If they’re not trying to sway our opinion left, they’re trying to distract us with mumbo jumbo about celebrities. I also agree with your thoughts on education. Look up the Reeese Committee if you haven’t heard of it already. WildeyedCharlie, the post that I put up originally wasn’t a response to yours. I have a tremendous amount of respect for what you’re doing, and I know you guys are at least prepared for what’s going on. After you and I conversed on this subject a few months back, I started searching for jobs in the Portland and Vancouver area. I work in operations management. Every job I applied for said “biligual prefered”. That’s not a good sign. I’m branching out into Salt Lake City, Missoula, Boise, Billings, and Spokane. We, as like minded individuals, need to congregate somewhere. I realize that many of us come from different backgrounds, have different political and religous views, and have different expectations in life, but we have to figure out what we are going to do. I’m still young, have some savings, and I’m not tied down by a wife and kids or a mortgage, so I don’t have a problem picking up and moving a thousand miles. I realize many of you don’t have that option. If the economy collapses, or there is some type of social upheaval, I want to be around like minded individuals, that I can trust.
Posted by pinchegabacho at 12:14 PM on November 2
A lot depends if we can learn from experience. If we see an animal in a trap, take pity on it and free it, but the next day see it has wandered in the same trap… what can you do? Suppose we gain a homeland again, all white, will we begin to make exceptions again: non-white political refugees, workers to do labor “whites won’t do”, the demographic compromises of “free trade”. Hopefully We’d have learned from experience, developed an ingrained racial memory, never again.
People need to look at faces around them, feel trust, affirmation, confidence, and have that mirrored back at them in their faces. That’s why “good non-whites” more dangerous to Whites than “bad non-whites”. It’s natural to be polite, even kind to good people, but this prevents us from taking a stand in our interests. We could fight the Japanese in the 40’s because they were devils that hated us. But the Devil has learned you catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. Try telling a minority neighbor, co-worker, sister-in-law, someone that’s essentially a “good-non-white” what our White Nationalist philosopical position is. They’re a different universe, they just don’t get it. Easier to be Davy Crockett at the Alamo, than telling a minority (someone, as a person, you like) you don’t want them here, making a scene, they just don’t understand. It’s easier just to give up. Sometimes it easier to die then to make a scene. That’s why you have to win the game before the players even take the field.
In a seceded White Land, the seeming harmless incremental social turn would have to watched with a suspicious eye. As William Blake wrote: “The dog starved at the master’s gate fortells the ruin of the state.” Both Greed and compassion, if misused, could be the stratagem of a Trojan Horse. Miscegenation would do more harm, in the long run, than even the crime of murder. What’s the difference between North America and ‘South of the border’: One married the natives, the other didn’t.
Some on this site have blamed White altruism for our plight, that’s something we could round and round about, but altruism is as much a part of our nature as sex, aggression, love, despair, you name it; all these things have been in us from our beginning; altruism isn’t going away. That’s why we have to be by ourselves with xenophobia rules. Otherwise when “good non-whites” look at us with pleading, all too-human eyes, we’ll give in, just like we did before, the same mistake. Then we could free altruism for our own.
Posted by Patrick2 at 1:08 PM on November 2
Secession has its appeal on a visceral level, but I say why should we give up anything that our ancestors built and fought for? The harder way but the ultimately better and more secure way is to take back what we’ve lost…not retreat to a corner of the continent and have yet another hostile neighbor at our borders.
Posted by Lex Concord at 1:34 PM on November 2
Regarding the idea that all the educated, creative people, particularly the scientific types, would live in the Blue, leftist states after any division of the U.S: Recall a few days back the story on this site about how doctors prefer not to serve Black patients. I believe that most White liberals actually agree with us on most racial issues, because they rarely allow their own precious kids to go to racially “diverse” schools, and they don’t take advantage of the real estate bargains to be found in many slums. I also agree with many posters that liberalism is a mental aberration, a condition requiring continuous propaganda to suppress the cognitive dissonance caused by saying one thing and believing another. Just as physicians who are confronted with the reality of Black inferiority prefer Whites, the technological elites, trained in logic, will also choose the evidence before their eyes over the lies in their ears. Multiculturalism is strongest among those trained in literature, the arts, and the social sciences. (BTW, much of that last category of knowledge has been corrupt from its beginnings, and intentionally so.) Note, for example, the hysteria among Erica Jong and her literary pals. But while scientists who wish to keep their jobs may refrain from publicly criticizing the 3rd World among us, I doubt that many of them are clueless about racial differences. They’ll choose Baptists over Santeria any day. And they are also among the most aware of the problems caused by the influx of Chinese and Hindu geeks. I’m certain that most White scientists and engineers know the score as well as we do.
Posted by Schoolteacher at 1:48 PM on November 2
“The blue states, I’m afriad, will have nearly all (or most of) the scientists, the educated people, the cultured and creative people who will *laugh* with comtempt at the red states,”
Not after we send no food and accept no garbage.
Posted by gb at 1:55 PM on November 2
How do you battle this form of demographic change without some form of secession? We get one vote which you can cast for better leadership, you can have children and do your best to shield them from the culture and from the non-Whites hitting on them, you can give money to certain groups.
What else?
People say “Stay and fight” but it’s not as if people are really fighting just by “living” in ghetto-like conditions. Living in a predominantly Black or Hispanic area, working a 9 to 5 job and sending your kids to an integrated school isn’t “fighting,” more like barely surviving.
If a county is 50% Black and 50% White are you going to say to the Whites “Stay and fight?”
What does “fight” mean? Which part of their daily routine constitutes fighting? Everything’s integrated by law. There’s very little way to fight within the law other than voting or having children. “Stay and fight” is a meaningless slogan because while you can stay, there’s no way lawful you can fight. It should be “Stay and try your best to live,” at worst it’s “Stay and live in a ghetto.”
The attitude seems to come from the idea that we must not surrender a single piece of land, not a single state or county, because all of America rightfully belongs to us. And if you leave a piece of land you are “surrendering” that land.
Whether that is true or not about all of America rightfully belonging to us, I’m afraid that ship has already sailed. The condition of a house is going to reflect whichever people are living in that house. The population within the borders of this country is 40% non-White. A country is it’s [i]people[/i], and 40% of the people within this country are not our people any longer.
The only relevant question right at this moment is do you want that 40% living intermixed with Whites (Which according to simple mathematics will doom us within X number of generations) or do you want them living separate from Whites (SEGREGATION….White people having their own living areas. Some degree of control over their own lives. How incredibly evil! Brrrrrr!)
We should encourage White flight because it separates Whites from Hispanics/Blacks/Hispanics. The more White flight occurs the more predominantly White areas we’ll have in America. People are still living in fantasy-land, we’re not fighting for control of every square inch of land in America anymore, we’re fighting for our very existence as a race today. White flight is our last hope to even exist in the future. If the entire country becomes integrated into areas 50% White 25% Black 25% Latino we’re completely doomed. We can’t survive in those conditions.
Obviously we’ll lose large parts of the country, due to the fact the simple fact that America is now 40% non-White. A country is it’s people, when your country is 40% foreign people you’ve officially lost 40% of your country. Again, that ship has already sailed. Blame Ted Kennedy. He stood on the Senate floor and told the biggest lie in American history “This will not change the demographics of America.” Perhaps the most substantial lie ever told in the history of our country. Benedict Arnold has nothing on Ted Kennedy.
Posted by jackolantern at 3:56 PM on November 2
“Secession” is the wrong word. It assumes there will still be a nation-state called “United States.” The right word is “dissolution.” What will happen is that the US government simply collapses of its own dead weight, as the USSR did in 1991. Not to mention the Roman Empire, Ottoman Empire and just about any other empire you can name. All empires eventually fall apart; we’re just witnessing this dissolution from the inside. The end result, of course, is impossible to know as there are way too many variables. However, I have made what IMHO is a logical educated guess; anyone interested in my forecast can e-mail me.
“white student” is exactly right. People like “Jupiter” are either off their good meds or on some really bad ones. No country has anywhere near the capability of transporting invaders here, either by air or sea. As for the real threat (Mexico), once the corrupt US government is abolished, the border states will be free to seal those borders and deal with their illegals in whatever manner they choose.
Now in another 200 million years or so the continents will likely merge again and form the next version of Pangaea, which would allow China, Pakistan, etc. to invade. But I’ve decided not to worry about that.
Posted by Strider at 4:54 PM on November 2
“The blue states, I’m afriad, will have nearly all (or most of) the scientists, the educated people, the cultured and creative people who will *laugh* with comtempt at the red states,”
A dollar bill isn’t redeemable for anything if the store shelves are empty. The value of a dollar from day to day is built upon a foundation of manual labor. I suppose they’re depending on their pet Hispanics to build the houses and put food on the table.
The problem with that is they would be betting their entire hypothetical future on a group of people who aren’t really crazy about Whites of any political persuasion. This is already happening with or without secession.
Hispanics are working these jobs strictly for financial reasons, hammering nails and mowing lawns and picking fruits for White people is not a union built on shared destiny or brotherly love. It’s a union built upon “Give me my paycheck Gringo” and nothing more. It’s an extremely temporary arrangement, they’re going to ask for more and more and the state of California is not going to be able to afford to give them more and more.
They’re also a net drain on the economy, California filed for bankruptcy recently and Schwarzenegger is begging Washington to lend California some money it doesn’t have.
Another reason Hispanics can’t replace Whites. Nations are built around a sense of shared destiny and unity among it’s people. Paradise comes from thousands of small actions and kindnesses and chivalry, all of which originate from the idea that by extending a courtesy to another individual you’re also contributing to your own future, because you both have one future. For a state to be successful it’s people must believe they all have a future.
That people of a Liberal persuasion believe Hispanic border-jumpers can and will replace their own people at the lower levels of society is more example of how they have become so disconnected from Human nature. They are obsessed with the notion that all things are inherently equal, and you can “Take a little from here and put a little there and transfer a little bit over there” and strike just the right balance in order to achieve a socially engineered paradise. In other words a politician can sit at a desk, take out a pen and set to work at engineering paradise.
Posted by jackolantern at 5:34 PM on November 2
General you sound like the blacks I work with who refer to the Midwest as “one big trailer park”, and the South as “ignorant rednecks”.
How many of the intelligent people on the coasts originated in the Midwest?
[pinchegabacho]
Lots of them! And that’s why they left it.
It doesn’t matter where they “originated”. It matters where they chose to end up.
[PS. You wrote a good post, though.]
Posted by at 5:55 PM on November 2
“The true POWER of the enemy is their control of the media… Beyond that, HOW did they get control of the media?”
That would include forums like American Renaissance, especially.
Posted by at 6:40 PM on November 2
“Suppose we gain a homeland again, all white, will we begin to make exceptions again: non-white political refugees, workers to do labor “whites won’t do”, the demographic compromises of “free trade”.
In a seceded White Land, the seemingly harmless incremental social turn would have to watched with a suspicious eye… Both Greed and compassion, if misused, could be the stratagem of a Trojan Horse. Hopefully, we’d have learned from experience, and developed an ingrained racial memory, never again.”
posted by Patrick2
— — — — — —
Excellent points. In the course of events, as they develop, it’s inevitable that there will be enormous pressures to make compromises, allow exceptions, grant exemptions. And after those concessions are made, then just a few more will be asked. Expecially in times of war or national crises (which are inevitable), there will be even greater pressure brought to ask or demand concessions. Exactly as it already happened here before… a repeat performance of history.
And are you going to ban churches from preaching, “We are all God’s children?” Would you forbid clergymen from saying , “It’s only the Christian thing to do?” Are you going to censor sermons and newspaper editorials? Would you refuse to take in starving refugees from a hurricane or flood? When they later refuse to go home, are you going to evict them at gunpoint? What if they STILL refuse to go? Are you going to USE the guns … (with world television watching)?
These are all things to think about. As conditions eventually grow settled and comfortable again after the “realignment”, and people’s guards become relaxed and the generation that experienced the rupture grows old and passes on, public wariness about race or immigration will be softened. The young (as always) will tend to think their elders are fussy, old-fashioned fuddy-duddies. They will think they are smarter, they can do better. They will want “change”.
It’s going to be a big problem to prevent the same thing from happening all over again — in due time. And I don’t even mean in the next generation, necessarily, but in the next century or two when the conditions that caused the break-up have grown dim and other more pressing issues have come to the fore. History will have to be taught well — THIS time!
Posted by browser at 6:53 PM on November 2
“The State of Jefferson, Cascadia, Northwest Republic, or any other name you wish to give it, has been around conceptually for a long time. The problem is that Oregon and Washington are blue states. ”
They are blue states by a slim majority. I’m sure the blues would be ok with moving to California or NY anyway, rather than staying and fighting. I’m more worried about Minnesotta which has a large port and is becoming more third world. We should try to incorporate that state. Many minessottans object strongly to the Somalis and Mexicans dumped on them by the federal government, so they may join us.
Posted by at 7:16 PM on November 2
Is there a provision in the Constitution for the governors to fire the federal government?
Posted by at 10:07 PM on November 2
I want to say that I agree with both the conception that Schoolteacher, and the posters similar to him, have of the situation, and the actions suggested on it by mostly Schoolteacher, which to read reminded me of how once I read of an action being described as “the smallest meaningful action.”
Whatever you want to call grouping with like-minded individuals — call it secession or segregation or forming a microcommunity or what have you — we need to do it, because, as I expressed in my first post in this article, and as have others, especially well by jackolantern, I think, there does not seem to be any other course of action to take.
What generalquagmyer says, though I don’t think I have the experience to know how correct an assesment it is, and can only note that I would prefer it not to be correct and observe the debate it generates, does strike me as true in that it seems to me that many who support race realism do so because they see the civil rights movement as one of many pernicious, and, for their promotion by a single interest, interdependant departures from something of a past, optimum Christian nation, that tended maximally to the happiness of its populance, and from which the departures, all being bad, will all in whatever solution that arises need to be reversed. And the converse of why these supporters, whom I suppose I’ll call “the conservatives,” are such, is true for the opposers of race realism, whom I’ll call “the liberals:” the conservatives seem to me to reject whatever is new, and the liberals seem to accept anything that is new — both stupidly. I suppose I have wondered sometimes if there are many people at all who judge any given societal change by its merits, and not by merely whether it represents a change or not.
I, myself, for instance, think homosexuality, the acceptance of which is one of the said departures, is not objectionable at all, in itself; the only objection to homosexual conduct I will make is to that lying outside the realms of decency that any heterosexual conduct outside of will recieve objection to. Homosexuality is not a problem. Mass third-world immigration and domestic cultivation of low quality people, also one departure, now, that’s a problem. So, I, finding no causative relation between the two, think that the immigration and cultivation should be stopped, but not the tolerance for homosexuality. The conservatives, however, find that the two, because they were of the departures that were made, are interdependant, and must exist together, along with all the others; in their view, it is impossible to have a nation accepting of homosexuality that does not have massive immigration and cultivation of low quality people. Either both exist, or, because they both cause each other, they both exist. Hence, they think that both the acceptance and the immigration and cultivation should cease.
And I suppose that, with this what I call “conservative” attitude, I just do not agree. And the “liberal” one, too, obviously. What in the departures was destructive should stop, and what was truly advancement should be retained.
Posted by Sunder at 11:32 PM on November 2
I’m not sure why so many posters on this topic assume that secession must only be on a state-by state, winner-take-all basis. Certainly, here in Pennsylvania, we have two densely-populated, far-left, very dark cities (Philadelphis and Pittsburgh), but in between lies a vast expanse of mostly White, rural conservatives. That doesn’t make Pennsylvania a “blue state” that should be written off, just because it has dark majorities in its two most populous excrescence cities.
States — even unfortunate kalifornia — aren’t as homogenous as many here seem to think. Dissolution, should it come to pass (and that possibility becomes less remote every day), may well have to happen on a county-by-county basis.
Posted by at 7:40 AM on November 3
Strider and White student
They-Chinese,Indians, Iraniansfor example -are already arriving in large enough numbers to have established a certain level of colonization of Ameican territory. And when the level of colonization is enormous, non-white nations effectively control the resources of the colonized area. And when Whites give up huge tracts of territory to the non-whites, the Chinese,Indians and other groups will fly them in and ship them in to accelerate the process.
White Secessionist, by allowing the colonization of American territory by China and India, allow China and India to gain control of educational,scientific,technological and military infrastructure of the colonized territory. This of course will accelerate the process of colonization. The invaders will now be in a very powerfull position to call the shots in the territory they have conquered. Eventually you will start to see Chinese and Indian politicians campaigning for votes in America.This is already happenning in Vancouver. Secession tolerates and allows a conquest of White American territory through colonization.
I want a very large ocean between America and China. If Secessionist have their way, China’s borders,through colonization of US territory will potentially extend deep into US territory-right up the new White homelands. Secessionist deny that this could ever happen. The process has already started. Silicon Valley and other communities throughout America that I can mentioned are effectively colonies of China and India. The same can be said of Vancover. With dissolution will come a high degree of entrenchement in the areas already undergoing colonization by China and India.
If an invasion is not repelled in its early stages, it will much more difficult to repell in its advanced stages. The beach heads are being established amd the secessionists say “let them in deeper”.
Posted by Jupiter at 8:09 AM on November 3
If the country breaks up, it is likely to fall into five or six separate nations. Dixie would be one of the most prosperous because it has a large population, plenty of natural resources, great ports, mild weather and the largest concentration of whites with a similar history…in other words, the basis of political cohesion. Other areas would have various strengths and weaknesses also. The Southwest would be a problem for whites, as would the crowded cities of the Northeast. Perhaps they would not be viable economic entities as they would be heavily dependent on exports. Also, the Red States nations would end affirmative action and most welfare. That would precipitate a mass out migration of blacks and Hispanics into areas where such benefits would be more likely to persist. Concomitantly, conservative whites would move from Blue areas to Red ones, and liberals in the Red areas to Blue areas. This would ultimately strengthen the Red areas and weaken the Blue ones.
So by all means, support Secessionist movements. The cream will then rise to the top.
Posted by Xenophon at 9:43 AM on November 3
I live in a dreaded East Coast Blue State but in a White Suburb. I love the assumption that there are no scientists only bumpkins in the Mid and West US.
Posted by at 11:28 AM on November 3
Call yourselves what you want and make up any excuses you like, but Real Americans don’t talk about seccession, period. Real Americans work with their fellow citizens to make a better and stronger America. Good luck, losers.
Posted by Black Insurgent at 11:28 AM on November 3
Jupiter,
I was not meaning by my comments to imply that we should just give up our territory to these other nations. I also would agree that certain tech industries are being overrun with Asians. This should be stopped immediately. I only meant to say that it won’t reach the tipping point where there will be so many Asians here that they will take over. Once a certain mass is reached, there would no doubt be protest on the part of many Americans in the areas being inundated with these invaders.
Posted by Whit sutdent at 12:26 PM on November 3
Jupiter
White secessionists aren’t the ones allowing the Chinese and Indians to establish themselves on our continent, it’s the governments of the United States and Canada. “Our” government has no intention of slowing, much less stopping the influx of Chinese, Indians, or Mexicans, for that matter, into large areas of our country.
Posted by pinchegabacho at 12:37 PM on November 3
As all this talk of secession goes on just remember, whatever areas might become all White Christian and perhaps exclusively so, the entire world will still be out there, including the new sub-nations right next door. History has shown us that international boycott works, as does UN/international pressures and sanctions. Violent revolution here would invite invasion from traditional enemies. During our last Civil War, British troops waited in Canada to invade and retake the “colonies.” I doubt the Confederacy would have survived, besides the drafting of individual poor Southerners and the ability for the rich to buy their way out of service destroyed the principal of a non-centralized Confederacy, which undermined the main argument of the South – other than its economic dependence on a slave system.
I have argued in the past that the only way to really combat what we don’t like in this country is to learn to be more united as a racial group. We must learn to teach our children to love who and what they are. They must value their history as European descended peoples and know who their 18th century great grandparents were – at least.
I saw a new study this morning that says that teens who were allowed to watch racy television programs are twice as likely to get pregnant than those who watch tamer programming. Immagine how much influence that means is possible. But things have slipped so far today, that even a Penencostal mom running for the Vice Presidency cannot prevent her teen daughter from becoming pregnant. Why is that? I think it is because she has a family that has departed from traditional roles, the very ones her Christianity supposedly demands of her. Her personal ambition and greed trumps her role as a mother. She is a prime example of what happens when we subtract the presence of a real mother and allow permissiveness to creep into our lives. Maybe the answer is to go back to the time when 16 year olds were allowed, even encouraged to marry. That was one Christian answer to the very human tendancy to answer to the call of the flesh.
But we must be realistic. The best way to preserve our race is to teach its value and the redeeming historic qualities of it in our homes, since it is not in public schools. Do you think Blacks and Hispanics get all that attitude at school? Home schooling has been one answer, but we still need youth who can cope with public education systems so that they can become scientists, doctors and engineers. That is, unless we wish to go back to the 13th century. But I think such a path as anti-intellectualism as in a government based on the “fact” of creationism would assure this and we would soon be conquered by our more advanced enemies. But even in the 13th century, the greatest repressive means could not quell the spark of rational thinking inherent in the human mind.
Secession is a thought provoking fantasy, but I don’t see many – if any posters here mulling over what the process would be like and how the world would respond. These sorts of fantascies do cause wars and their promoters always predict a short, glorious struggle that we can all celebrate in song and story. But as we all know, they all ended up in long, horrible, soul destroying bloobaths that went on for years. Our Civil War probably killed most of the best of our American White race at that time. Europe finalized its revolt against feudal monarchies with almost a complete century of struggle between the assumed replacements fascism and communism – resulting in the largest racial kill-offs of Whites that all the murdering in Africa has not yet surpassed and is unlikely to surpass.
I hope we Whites have learned something from our failures toward ourselves in our own White history.
Posted by Whiteplight at 12:45 PM on November 3
Even if a state secedes, it will not make a difference. Why not? Because…
Posted by at 12:46 AM on November 1
Congratulations on an excellent post. This is exactly what will happen. Remember early 17th century America. The unlike the S. American Indians, our Indians refused to give up their warrior way of life to be perpetual peons laboring for rich white planters. The white indentured servantsimported from Europe insisted on their rights to be freed after 7 years. They went to court about it. A majority of the court cases between 1620 and 1800 were about conflicts between indentured servants and their masters. The masters tried their best to make the indenture a life long one rather than abiding by the terms of the 7 year contract.
So the rich imported blacks. The courts as always bowed to the rich and created the institution in this country by turning African indentured servants into slaves.
But I’m still all for secession. The USA hates whites. Our elites and federal government wants to do to us what Lenin did to the kulaks. We have got to realize what is happening and start to defend ourselves.
Posted by at 12:51 PM on November 3
“white student” is exactly right…. No country has anywhere near the capability of transporting invaders here, either by air or sea.
Now, in another 200 million years or so …. But I’ve decided not to worry about that.
Posted by Strider
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I’m not worried about the next 200 million either. But the next thirty or forty DO worry me. By then, the world will be a very different place.
Those countries don’t have the capacity to invade right NOW… no arguing that. But look at the future. A weakened, dismembered, internally anarchic, former “United” States of America would present a tasty plum to nibble at for a newly powerful, highly industrialized China, or maybe India or Brazil (also industrializing rapidly). It would also present many countries that we have bombed or invaded or occupied over the past century with a tantalizing opportunity to “get even” with a prostrate Uncle Sam.
Indeed, there are too many variables as you say, to predict so far into the future, but if the USA totally collapses, it can be expected that all the jackals, large and small, will flock in to feast on the carcass. (And satisfy their grudges.)
Posted by ghw at 2:00 PM on November 3
Xenophon said
‘That would precipitate a mass out migration of blacks and Hispanics into areas where such benefits would be more likely to persist.’
Without White taxpayers how will the blue states affird welfare? Black USA will turn into a Africa like failed state while Hispnic USA will become an extention of Mexico. White America will rise up again, a much weaker version of the U.S.A of the 50’s. This time hopefully White America will keep away from ‘invade the world-invite the world’policy like poison.
Posted by at 2:19 PM on November 3
The problem is that Oregon and Washington are blue states. ”
They are blue states by a slim majority. I’m sure the blues would be ok with moving to California or NY anyway, rather than staying and fighting. I’m more worried about Minnesotta which has a large port and is becoming more third world.
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I can tell you that New York State, if you subtract NY City and its suburbs, would not be so blue. NY STATE is not NY CITY!!! The same with Minnesota. If you subtract Minneapolis-St.Paul, you would have a very different picture there. You mention a large port (Duluth?)… I don’t think that could be considered liberal country either.
Posted by at 2:32 PM on November 3
White Secessionist[s], by allowing the colonization of American territory by China and India, allow China and India to gain control of …the infrastructure of the colonized territory. The invaders will now be in a powerfull position to call the shots in the territory they have conquered. Eventually, you will start to see Chinese and Indian politicians campaigning for votes in America. This is already happenning in Vancouver. Secession tolerates and allows a conquest of White American territory through colonization.
If Secessionist[s] have their way, China’s borders,through colonization of US territory, will potentially extend deep into US territory — right up the new White homelands. Secessionist[s] deny that this could ever happen. The process has already started. Silicon Valley and other communities throughout America that I can mention are effectively colonies of China and India. The same can be said of Vancover. If an invasion is not repelled in its early stages, it will much more difficult to repel in its advanced stages.
posted by Jupiter
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I have to agree with Jupiter on this (and I find nothing wrong with his “meds” either). But damn, if he would only learn to form plurals!
I stayed a hotel in Silicon Valley a few weeks ago. At dinner, I looked around the dining room and observed that probably 4/5 of the diners were Indians. They absolutely predominated! Next morning , at breakfast (very early, 6AM), I noticed that almost all the guests this time were Chinese! If not for me, and maybe another one or two whites, they would have been 100%. Apparently, the Chinese are very early risers, and the Indians drift in much later (around 10). Interesting! In either case, the number of white Americans was minuscule — definitely a minority there. This hotel was not cheap (a Hilton) — but apparently these people, from notoriously poor countries, have no difficulty affording it.
In addition, there were a number of quite large (and expensive) Indian restaurants in the neighborhood and several all-Asian shopping centers too. I went strolling through the shopping center next door and couldn’t find any [acceptable] place to eat. All Asian! Even the signs and menus were not in English. Though it was an expensive area, to find an American restaurant or grocery store was not possible around there. I’ve also stayed at hotels in Cupertino, Sunnyvale, San Jose, MountainView —- same thing! I can see what Jupiter means.
Posted by ghw at 3:31 PM on November 3
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Alarm #4
